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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |

Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2014.02.25 17:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know most of the posters on this thread now are discussing the matter more for the sake of discussion than anything else. Nonetheless I'd like to add my opinion.
IMO Margin Trading is bad right now because new market players have no way of knowing such mechanic exists before they try to fill an order. I haven't played the tutorials for some time, but I also don't believe there is a marketing tutorial out there that teaches about it. Not even the skill text tells what happens when the buyer has no credits to pay the order. This makes the scam require little ability to pull. It used to be the same with courier scams. Courier scammers also relied on the game's lack of information on nullsec mechanics to set up high collateral contracts to undockable stations. CCP fixed it by adding a warning. I'm anxious to see what they are going to do about Margin Trading. |

Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 12:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Jta Grl wrote:IMO Margin Trading is bad right now because new market players have no way of knowing such mechanic exists before they try to fill an order. I haven't played the tutorials for some time, but I also don't believe there is a marketing tutorial out there that teaches about it. Not even the skill text tells what happens when the buyer has no credits to pay the order. This makes the scam require little ability to pull. This only makes sense if you believe the Margin Trading skill is what scams you. You've fallen for the scam as soon as you've purchased the overpriced items. What happens when you attempt to sell the items is no different than what would happen if the order had been made with "legitimate" intent and you tried to sell to it when the wallet couldn't cover the cost. In both cases, the orders fail for the same exact reason. The only difference is that you're angry because you're sitting on massively overpriced items, while a knowledgeable seller likely wouldn't be angry because they'd be operating within a normal value range for the items. They could just sell at the next opportunity, and wouldn't have to worry about losing perhaps hundreds of millions of ISK on a poorly-researched deal. That makes no sense. The only reason ppl buy those overpriced items is because they see a buy order in the market they can fill, only it is a Margin Trading order. I personally never fell for this scam, so I'm not angry. I just feel this is not fair play because in this case the game rules are not clear to the players. |

Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 13:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Jta Grl wrote:That makes no sense. The only reason ppl buy those overpriced items is because they see a buy order in the market they can fill, only it is a Margin Trading order. I personally never fell for this scam, so I'm not angry. I just feel this is not fair play because in this case the game rules are not clear to the players. It makes perfect sense. Nobody forces these people to buy the items. It's not like, when you see what appears to be a "great deal," you lose all capacity for control and are arm-twisted into making the purchase. That buy order could disappear for any number of reasons. It turns out that the reason why it disappears is because there isn't enough ISK in the wallet to cover it. But imagine that somebody with the same items purchased at true market value got there ahead of you and attempted to fill the buy order. It would fail just the same. Only this person wouldn't be angry, because they didn't buy overpriced items. They can sell those market-value items to somebody else later on, and feel nothing more than perhaps a twinge of regret that they didn't make an absolute killing on that too-good-to-be-true buy order. The person who bought massively overpriced items, though, is distraught. But you can avoid this with market research. If a single buy order is what you're using to gauge the value of something, then you're trading the wrong way. Pure and simple. What happened to you is your own fault. The Margin Trading skill is not responsible.
If players knew there is a possibility of the order not being filled when they sell the item to it they would buy overpriced items with conscience of the risk. This is not like a double isk scam. New market players have no means to understand the risk other than other locals screaming Margin Trading scam to the contracts that show up.
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Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 13:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
In other words, ppl who fall for Margin Trading scams are trusting solely on the game mechanics, wich fails to deliever proper information to them. |

Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 14:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Jta Grl wrote:If players knew there is a possibility of the order not being filled when they sell the item to it they would buy overpriced items with conscience of the risk. This is not like a double isk scam. New market players have no means to understand the risk other than other locals screaming Margin Trading scam to the contracts that show up.
Yes, they are able to understand the risk. It's called learning about market trading in EVE before you dump hundreds of millions of PLEX cash into a scam. The Margin Trading scam is probably the single most talked about scam in EVE right now. New players could simply type "scam" into a forum search and find posts about it. Before getting into trading, they could go to the forums and create a post asking about trading-related scams, and they would certainly receive numerous replies detailing the Margin Trading scam, how it works, and how to detect/avoid it. This alone is a far better antidote than anything mechanical that you could introduce to the game, because not only is it effective in that superior "teach a man to fish" way, but it doesn't impose unfair limitations on a skill that enormous numbers of traders use legitimately to do their business.
How can you tell a forum poster is not lying about something just like a in-game player is? You can't. Games need neutral entities to support new players. You don't just give someone a handful of cards and tell him: "play". Let's say the game is poker 2.0. Have you ever played poker 2.0? Too bad you didn't knew in poker 2.0 you can have aces on your sleeves, I won the game. You could have asked to someone at the bar about 2.0 rules but you didn't, too bad.
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Jta Grl
2 Pingeons Incorporated
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:Jta Grl wrote:How can you tell a forum poster is not lying about something just like a in-game player is? You can't. Easy. Cross-check the information you've been given with forum posts about the same topic. Also, this is a moot point because we both know that the Margin Trading scam has been detailed truthfully on these forums in an exhaustive manner countless times. Part of the way that EVE has always educated new players is through the forum community. It is a massive resource. To treat it like it doesn't exist just because it's not embedded in the game is ridiculous. The community is an awesome resource. Ppl who resort to cooperation in EvE tend to be much more sucessful than solo players. Nonetheless the game can't oblige someone to depend on someon else to be sucessful. The name of the game is Everyone vs. Everyone. A player should have the means to face everyone else as a competitor if he wants to. The game must either make it clear for everyone it is possible for some buy orders to fail or change the way this mechanic works. |
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